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then he stopped operating because of his arthritis and that is when I kindly declined the offer
and decided to come and train at the Cleveland Clinic.
“It is interesting. Chris Barnard was at a meeting that I was at State College, Pennsylvania
many years ago, a very small meeting. And he at that time was with maybe at least his 3 wife,
who was quite a bit younger than he was, but he was certainly someone that was charismatic,
particularly to non-surgeons.”
It also brings out the interesting thing how we have talked often about how programs have
risen to great fame and then decline. Of course under Walt Lillihei in Minnesota Chris Barnard
trained with him also Denton Cooley, as did Vincent Gott, Norman Shumway and many other
famous surgeons. I once was sitting next to Vincent Gott at dinner and we were chatting and he
mentioned that he had been doing his original research on heart lung machines and Chris
Barnard was working on duodenal atresia in dogs and he saw Chris walking by and called him
and said 'Chris, come and help me, I need some help here with a pump.' Chris walked in and
helped him and that was when he decided he was going to do heart surgery and then, of course,
he continued to work with Lillihei. At a reception one night I was chatting to Lillihei and we
were talking about Chris Barnard and he told me [a] story that Chris had been with him about
six months and he ran a service of about 100 to 110 patients. One day out of frustration,
because Chris wasn't taking notes, he turned to Chris and said “Chris, why aren't you taking
notes? You are going to make a mistake and not remember what I tell you to do.' Chris
Barnard turned to Lillihei and said “Dr. Lillihei, sir, have I ever made a mistake and forgotten
something that you told me to do?' and Lillihei said he had to admit “no, you haven't.' Lillihei
said his memory was incredible. Later on in the trip we can talk about leadership and why
people succeed, why they fail, what the critical aspects are, and who makes a great resident,
etc.
“One of the interesting things, when Lillihei was at the University of Minnesota, the guy that
was really the major domo was Owen Waggensteen. Owen Waggensteen was a guy from a
little town called Lake Park, Minnesota which is about 30 miles east of Fargo. Owen
Wangensteen's niece and I actually went to high school together and she currently is a
pediatrician in Wisconsin. Whatever it was, that era at the University of Minnesota was
incredibly productive. I am certain that Lillihei had something to do with it. He wasn't the only
guy. Richard Varco was a very accomplished surgeon. My father was actually a medical
student in the 40s at the University of Minnesota. In those days Waggensteen was a GI surgeon,
and he had the idea that if you put a balloon filled with very cold water down into the stomach
you could cure ulcers and bleeding varices. The idea was that they would try to freeze the
lining of the stomach. My father, being from North Dakota said, “I have had my fingers frozen
and I can't imagine that would be good for anybody.' But it was used for quite a time at the
University of Minnesota.”
Yes, in my general surgery training I tried it several times for bleeding varices.
Among the subjects we were talking about on the flight from Washington to Dakar (slightly
bumpy from Hurricane Irene) was how it is interesting how companies and programs,
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