Ethics and Second-Order Cybernetics - Understanding Understanding: Essays on Cybernetics and Cognition - page 301

recognition of his peers, tears came to his eyes, and he left the room to hide
his emotions.
The sponsor of this, and four more conferences on this topic, was the
Josiah Macy Jr. Foundation of New York, who asked me to edit each of
the 5 volumes. Since all of that took place in the remote past, aficionados
of cybernetics refer to these topics as the “legendary Macy meetings on
cybernetics.”
Here ends, dear Yveline, my story of how cybernetics came upon me.
Y. Throughout the course of the conference, in the conference rooms as
well as the corridors of the Cité de la Villette, there was much discussion
about first-order cybernetics and second-order cybernetics; mostly to put
them opposite each other. For instance, “But you see my dear, in my view
this is from first-order cybernetics...”or,“I tell you, one really feels the
difference; this time we are in the second-order cybernetics.” Would you
attempt to clarify for the people here, what are the fundamental distinc-
tions for first-order and second-order cybernetics? Which change in direc-
tion or observation signify second-order cybernetics? Or to paraphrase G.
Spencer-Brown, whom you like to cite, “Design me a resemblance!” or,
“Design me a distinction!”
H. Let me draw the distinction for you. You followed me when I moved
from zero-order to first-order cybernetics. What did I do? I let the under-
lying circularity of processes of emergence, of manifestation, of structur-
ization, of organization, etc., become explicit. By that I mean that we now
reflect about these circular processes which generate structure, order,
behavior, etc., in those things we observe. Now Yveline, you can easily guess
how to move from first-order to second-order cybernetics.
Y. I think so. Let me try. In second-order you reflect upon your reflections.
H. Of course!
Y. And now, can I go on to third-order cybernetics?
H. Yes, you could. But it would not create anything new, because by
ascending into “second-order,” as Aristotle would say, one has stepped into
the circle that closes upon itself. One has stepped into the domain of con-
cepts that apply to themselves.
Y. Do you mean to say that a second-order cybernetics is a cybernetics of
cybernetics?
H. Yes, precisely!
Y. Can you give me other examples?
H. Yes of course. For instance, compare a typical first-order cybernetics
concept such as “purpose,” (as being the equivalent of “why”) with a
second-order question, “What is the purpose of 'purpose'?” (asking why the