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Daniel reiterates his point about scientific language as a tool for domination and
expands on his earlier comment, by noting how content and naming are intersecting
and contributing to the misunderstanding between people. Daniel articulates spe-
cific kinds of practices that vary with particular kinds of trees in the forest as well as
the different terminology used for them. Each of the cuts serves a different function,
depending upon the tree biology, the age of the particular section of forest, and the
overall management plan for the forest. There are a few questions that follow about
what exactly the difference is between a seed tree cut and shelter wood cut and the
differences in cuts that some of the community members who are present do not
understand (even those who have been loggers). This turn in the conversation rein-
states a sociohistoric frame and Justin returns the conversation to the sociopolitical
level and to Menominee people's general relationship with “science.”
Justin:
I think one of the problems with our anxiety about this is that we don't have a
[unknown] or we don't own the science or contribute to the decision making process. So
as a result, we're, we're allowing our resources to be managed and dictated by, um, science
and professionals and I think probably every one of our proscriptions are drafted by a non-
Menominee at this point and, and, and that, we in the past we, we had a sense of ownership
and knowledge that contributed to that decision making and we don't now.
There is a shift in Justin's stance here. Importantly, he now places himself within
the situation and gives voice to the anxiety as “ours” in an inclusive sense and “we”
in terms of owning the science. Justin suggests here that we, the Menominee people,
do not own or contribute to “science” or the associated decision-making processes.
Justin also seems to be struggling with another perspective in this utterance, one
that does not take on the accepted role of subordination in Sarah's comment. Justin
suggests that we (Menominees) are allowing the situation to happen. Although the
phrasing has a negative connotation, we read this as Justin's belief in a transfor-
mative potential that is within the control of the community. We could read, “we
are allowing” as a deep belief in self-determination and sovereignty. He notes that
the collective community once had a sense of ownership and knowledge that was
valuable and contributed to the decision making but that it is not present now.
This shift in Justin's stance shifts the power frame that was previously in place.
Now the power and choices, and potentially the criticism, are attributed to commu-
nity, not to science. Daniel, picking up Justin's reference to the proscriptions being
drafted, identifies his own relationship to the situation and seems to push on Justin's
collective we.
Daniel:
A big problem with the proscriptions up here, I mean from workin' in the woods,
bein' closely related or associated with people who still work in the woods, is, you know
they feel so much that it's, the forest is being experimented on. This place is being experi-
mented on, and, you know, they do a lot of good things, and uh, I got problems with some
of the things I seen that, you know, that did work, that they were doin', it was right scientifi-
cally, but culturally, it just looks so bad. I mean the buffer zone [an effort to insure that there
are stands of trees between roads and clear cuts so that they are not so visible], is the best
thing they did, and that's the best thing you guys did in stoppin' them from going up [to the
road]... And the, the areas that are, you know. The people have a say. They don't think so
buttheydohaveasay.
